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Making Children fight your battles because exploiting children is how we got here in the first place

Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning

tikibug
SOSEN Staff
Member

Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« on: August 18, 2008, 08:12:05 AM »

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Tom Madison will be on Fox News Mike and Julie show here in a bit. (www.soclear.org)

Comments to the show

http://www.mandjshow.com/contact/

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Kinsella
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 09:55:40 AM »

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I watched it and I think Tom Madison didn’t help our cause much today. I know he has done so much for RFSO, but today he lost a battle. Once he started yelling it was over. He was pretty much in a no win situation. But he looked angry, as I am sure he is, like all of us. But we can’t win this debate like that.

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flowergirl_1970
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 11:02:15 AM »

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This show made my skin crawl ….. I can understand why Tom lost a bit of composure. The sad part is that most people will will side with the misperceptions. Its too bad the media can’t be sued for spreading hysteria and lies.

LetsGetReal
Member

No need to fear, Underdog is HERE!

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 11:17:10 AM »

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Tom had to speak up in order to keep from being blind sided by Fox. Personally, it’s too bad that Fox’s biasness allows uninformed and ignorant people make statements that are not true and not allow responses to lies.
I don’t blame Tom one bit for getting his voice heard. I wish more people would speak loud enough to be heard. Everything Tom said was true and Fox’s blindsiding techniques can also be heard.

He got his point across in a very hostile environment. KUDOS Tom. Fox is the leader in spreading myths, lies and creating national hysteria. You will never get fair treatment from Fox. Never

Trust me, even though this was a Fox audience, there are those who actually heard what he had to get across
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LetsGetReal
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 11:37:49 AM »

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I would have rather had Tom speak up than sit there and being made a fool.

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fallenone
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2008, 11:48:37 AM »

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They didn’t give Tom 10 seconds to speak before they interrupted him. That would have pissed me off. That DA was a total wacko– she says “I’ve worked with pedophiles for (whatever) years blah blah blah” but DAs don’t work WITH anyone they work to CONVICT people. But yeah they never intended to give Tom a chance to speak. And for once Tom was being concise too, usually Tom loves to give long narratives today he was brief and precise but Juliet cut him off. If I would have been there I would have been pissed too.

I sent Mike and Juliet a scathing comment about the poor quality of the segment, and I also added they are no longer on in Cincinnati because their show was terrible anyways and no one around here watches it, and after seeing this turd, I can see why

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Megan
SOSEN Staff
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2008, 11:59:14 AM »

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I applaud the effort put forth by Tom.
He did good in the face of the enemy.
No surrender, no retreat.

However. I must say. I believe with all my heart. You can NEVER put a sex offender on national television to be interviewed without a contract of exactly what the agenda is.

They had all these guns pointed at Both these guys from the start.
Sabotage, purely sabotage.

I believe Mothers of Children and Teens who are being persecuted unjustly, Professionals, who know the statistics and are willing to fight for the cause and public figures, like Michael Moore, or some tv host who is willing to do the research, and speak up for the cause are the ONLY ones should be in front of a camera.

Not that I know anything. And I like Tom and his crew, I do not wish to say anything against him personally or what he does.
But I should be allowed to voice my opinion, in humility and for the cause.

If you are a sex offender, please do not get in front of a camera unless you have a contract of who will be there and what they will say. And definitely it needs to be pre-recorded so you can sign off on it before it is aired.

Just my thoughts.

Kinsella
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2008, 12:03:18 PM »

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I agree with Megan. SO’s are in a no win situation. We need spouses, children, doctors, friends, etc. to speak for us. We(SO) can not win. The message get’s lost the second we say “I am a SO”. I thought Tom Armstrong did a great job. It was too bad he went first and didn’t get a chance to respond to some of the stupid comments made.

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LetsGetReal
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2008, 12:56:49 PM »

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In spite of being on Fox, I think this was a win win situation. Yes, Fos was up to their tricks to promote ratings, but I do not believe that ANGER should NEVER be used. There are times for anger, and this was one of the. Sure it truns a lot of people off but it also causes others to “listen.”

Fox was uses anger all the time, that is how they get their ratings. Bill O is KNOWN for it and many tune in just to wait for him to “go off.”

There is a time and a season for EVERYTHING.

Tom, I salute you. Your anger is justified. For those who have ears to hear.

I wouldn’t doubt that Tom may use this for another SoClear, “Fair and Balanced” video.

Again, Many KUDOS to Tom.

Time to make some lemonade
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Sex Offender Issues
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2008, 01:45:05 PM »

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I agree, we need children and family members doing this, then the people will listen a little more, especially if it’s a child. Like others have said, you have to fight fire with fire some times.
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Triedbyconscience
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2008, 02:34:54 PM »

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We are not a nation of collective responsibility, but one of personal responsibility. We are not a nation of tyrants, but of citizens with rights, and thus… must we remain, lest we fall into the ashes of history, never again to rise.

klpsupermom
SOSEN Staff
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2008, 09:32:10 PM »

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I think the “victim”, although she claims to be recovered I think she is still playing a victim. I agree that the DA is clueless when it comes to statistics. Well, at least things are heating up and someone influential is finally speaking out!!


Sex Offender Issues
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2008, 10:30:56 PM »

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Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to listen to a registered sex offender, period. And this is why I have stated before, that a registered sex offender should NOT be appearing on TV, except where they can hide their face and voice and freely speak their minds.

Nor should a RSO be running an organization about registered sex offender issues. It’s ok if they help behind the scenes, but being the owner and spokes person is NOT a good idea, IMO.

Like I’ve said, nobody will listen to an RSO, never. And this is why we need a husband/wife or even better, children out there talking about how these draconian laws have harmed them and their family. Like the child being bullied at school, loss of friends, moving all the time, stress, anger, etc.

Having an RSO run a company like this, or being on a news show to speak out about the unfairness of the laws. It’s like having some DUI offender run and own a alcohol store, and speak out about not being able to drive. Nobody will listen to this man, period. (bad example, I know, but I’m sure you get the point?)

If someone like the Dr. Salmek, who was in the Florida rally, would have got up and discussed this, or the Hess man from New York, more people would have listened then, or, better yet, a child and mother or father of a sex offender up on stage talked about the fear, guilt, shame, harassment, threats, etc, then they would listen. Who is going to jump on a child on national TV? Nobody, so, the child can get up and say how they feel, but, it should also be said, you should NOT coach the child what to say, they will spot that in a heart beat. It must be open and honest.

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oldman_inmaine
Member

Offline

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2008, 11:14:43 PM »

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I agree that his answers here were right on, however, most viewers will only recall the out burst.
The out burst will act like a shock treatment, that causes one to store, even misinformation, in more detail then truth in the mind. My gut turned over when he started talking when his turn had already been spoken. He had already addressed the fact that the pedo’s only made up a very small % of the over-all list of EX-sex-offenders. His out bust, will be used against his own cause. Very , very,

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fallenone
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2008, 11:33:24 PM »

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Okay, I need to address this — First of all, with few exceptions, no one else IS speaking up for us except us. People like Mary, who is NOT a sex offender and has what it takes to be an outside representative, is a rare thing. As far as Dr. Samek goes, I think he’s great, and I appreciate what he has done for us, but like him and Jill Levenson, they’re scholars, and scholars bore the hell out of the average person (Honestly, Jill Levenson’s internet event bored me to tears). Scholars are great but no one’s going to listen to them, either.
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fallenone
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2008, 11:41:34 PM »

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Quote from: lawdoc on August 18, 2008, 11:20:05 PM
It is really chilling to hear a DA say Tom should be in civil commitment for asserting himself.

This happens a lot. They sounded JUST LIKE Absolute Zero when these so-called professionals said crap like that. This D(umb)A($$) also said we’re “not taking responsibility” for our actions by speaking out. So taking responsibility to these idiots mean we must be silent and not fight for our right to live. Where did this idiotic DA get her Degree? Does Fox have an infinite supply of Cracker Jack? But yes I saw that too. Anyone catch her name? I have a shiitake award with her name on it.

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Anita
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #31 on: Today at 08:01:11 AM »

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I just watched both videos, the show and the Greenroom. What I think is that this was a successful presentation.

No, Tom did not get much audience support, (that’s to be expected), but HE GOT HIS POINTS ACROSS! As for his “anger”, it did not at any time rise above the DA’s level. Their “talking points” were equally explosive. Since these shows LOVE strong emotional reactions, I doubt that many veiwers left the room at that point in the show.


I also believe that the the dialoque reached a higher level of passion, both pro and con. People will be discussing the issue more now than they would have if this had been a ho-hum interview. Further, as near as I can tell from the videos, Tom was the ONLY one given a chance to speak in the Greenroom. Again, he got his points across. Good for you, Tom!

The “S*x offender” topic had to draw a viewing audience of all types of people; among them Defense attorneys, politicians, everyday family people, and, most importantly, the Ex offenders and their families as well. Each of them now know they have an advocate for themselves. Yes, on both sides. But, how often do ex-offenders get the chance to KNOW they have an Advocate? Now they know! They can see with their own eyes how the deck is stacked against them by the attitudes of Julia and the DA. But, they can also see that there are people like the two Toms, (hey! Tom-Tom, sounds like a beating drum to me), anyway, these two Toms are willing to publicly stand up and fight for them. On National TV! How many of them would now feel empowered to join the fight

I think we should capitalize on this show. Use it as an opportunity to publicize ourselves, and increase our membership. These people need us, and we are here for them, Nationwide!

Do you think that John Stossel would do a follow-up on this story? Show the “fair and balanced” side?


What do you think of placing a small ad in the Personals columns with our new Hotline number? Are we set up enough to handle a large volumne of calls?

Just tossing out my thoughts for discussion. Overall, I think we were just given an opportunity to come up from behind.

If Fox wants to give us lemons, let’s make lemonade and lemon meringue pie!

Anita

LetsGetReal
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #33 on: Today at 09:36:46 AM »

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After, viewing both videos and conferring with others, I am disassoicating myself and cfcoklahoma from SoClear and Tom Madison.

He does NOT represent ME or the cause.

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justus1
SOSEN Staff
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #34 on: Today at 09:53:51 AM »

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I thought Tom learned long ago, when I was his second in command, that the quantity of members an organization has means absolutely nothing. At one time, we had over 200 members at Soclear, but only 12 of us actually DOING anything. It was at that time that he CHOPPED all but about 20 members.

People love to get up close to look at the car wreck. Curiosity seekers. I’d be willing to bet that that’s what that’s about, if anything.

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flowergirl_1970
Member

Re: URGENT MESSAGE PLEASE READ RE: Tom Madison
« Reply #3 on: Today at 10:48:58 AM »

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I agree that Tom is probably not the best person to have represent RSO issues in a public arena. Not because I think he is a bad person, but because he lost his credibility yesterday and so everything he says from this point forward is basically moot. I don’t know him personally and I can’t judge his intentions for wanting to be on the front-line, but from this point forward, I agree that him doing so will be detrimental to the cause.

LetsGetReal
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #34 on: Today at 10:57:18 AM »

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Second Chance!

We all need to back off, cool down. We are too quick to shoot one of our own.

Give this a few days. We talk about second chances but not willing to extend grace and mercy to one of our own.

We’re doing the same thing society does to us. EMOTIONAL REACTION and emotions lack intelligence. Tom was angry, yes but that doesn’t justify our reactions IMO.

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fallenone
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #36 on: Today at 12:07:53 PM »

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What about the Ohio Rally? SOHopeful denounced the rally, and the trolls claimed they “Hijacked” the rally LOL. If the result was we reached more people and encouraged people to fight back, then its a benefit. But we’re the only ones willing to speak up for ourselves. The Oklahoma Educational Symposium was supposed to be a citizen’s event, non RSO but we couldn’t get any non-RSOs to commit to hosting or speaking. If I’m going to get beaten, I’d rather land a few blows than curl up in a ball and beg “Please Stop!”

We don’t have a John Walsh or a Lunsford, and while I have no respect for them as people, you have to respect the fact that what they say is Gospel to the masses. We need emotion, we need fire, we need FIGHT! This ain’t a competition, feel free to test your talents and show us how its done
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BlackRogue
Member

One Voice, One Fist!

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #38 on: Today at 04:02:04 PM »

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Tom held his decorum a lot better than I would have. I am not a public speaker and the abush tactics would have triggered me, so Kudo’s to Tom for trying. However the general overall idea so far is that it is the families that need to speak up, not the offenders. This is true. Putting a face to the pain and misery of the collateral effects of these laws is the way to reach the average Joe. However I do have reservations that this will work as this federal government is out of control, and has no semblence of a real democracy anymore. We live in a capitalistic republic and that is the furthest thing from a real democracy outside of communism that you can get. In a real democry the president doesn’t have the powers that this current electorates have and the people have the power. This country is too far gone I’m afrad to be saved.

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tiggeronmv
SOSEN Staff
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2008, 08:02:27 PM »

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I am pleased to see this string move back towards our purpose of addressing the question, “How do we reach out to the public, get their attention, and teach them the truth.” I am most interested in the E, education component of SOSEN.

Quote
This set of laws isn’t exactly promoting communication, openness, and honesty. *grins wryly*

*grins wryly* I love this,

In His service,
Tiggeronmv

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flowergirl_1970
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2008, 10:34:13 PM »

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Because the only way to fight laws that aren’t working is to speak out and the media is the strongest outlet. More often than not, the media has been unbiased in their interviews (I say interviews, not coverage of RSO issues). This show is/was the exception to that. Can you imagine Katie Couric or John Stossel (or any other reputable journalist) interviewing/interacting with Tom that way ….. I think not.

Triedbyconscience
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #44 on: Today at 12:10:58 AM »

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If you want to educate people, first you have to get their attention.. then you have to engage their brains, make them question, make them look at things… not because you’re right, but because all the sudden you have presented a flaw in their thinking, and challenged them to look at it.

To bring a person into thinking, you have to engage them in debate, in calmness and compassion. In our situations we must expect to be attacked, after all, isn’t that part of what we protest?

If you want to challenge people in a way that they improve themselves, challenge their preconceptions. Be something that they cannot deny, cannot challenge, cannot control. Be a person insisting, with human dignity, on fair and equal treatment. Be a person who refuses to accept being a third-class citizen, and addresses them as equals, and asks simply for the same. If they continue to denigrate, continue to assault, and continue to belittle, they will fail, in the face of your calm, and reasoned argument. Even if they shout you down, the fact that this is all they have to fight with will fall in their debit.

If they mock, their childishness counts against them. If they attack the messenger rather than the message, those who matter, those who think, will also note this.

This is the nature of debate, of reason, and of logic and compassion. Compassion can’t be attacked or argued with. It is the goal, in fact, of treatment to teach compassion. Truth cannot be argued with. The equality of humans cannot be argued with. To do so would weaken their own position.

These are the directions from which we must work. Not attack, but build bridges, not tear down, but construct.

After all, we’re in a war zone… it’s time to start rebuilding rather than razing.

Sex Offender Issues
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #45 on: Today at 02:11:26 AM »

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This is on the AZUStitches77 YouTube page:

http://www.youtube.com/user/AZUStitches77

And of course their blog (Which I am not adding a link to):

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Triedbyconscience
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #46 on: Today at 09:00:36 AM »

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*snorts* That’s not a debate… debate implies argument, rebuttal, and the ability to confront, point for point, the accusations and statements of the opposing side. That’s a shark’s feeding frenzy. Kind of like a previous ‘treatment group’.

Said ‘victim’ is more a victim of ignorance than of anything else. I wonder if she realizes ‘300 acts’ can easily be accomplished? That you can easily do 50 ‘crimes’ in a simple molestation trial? Our laws are such that each contact is a crime, any penetration is a separate crime, exposure is a separate crime, and each an ‘act’. The ‘act’ of exposure contains multiple ‘acts’ by itself, public nudity, exposure to a child, and whatever the local ordinance might allow to be thrown at them.

As far as recidivism rates of pedophiles… pedophiles are very, thankfully, rare. THat ‘DA’ is evidently lacking education, and chooses to as well.

While I agree that his anger doesn’t help the situation, it is also not something I can entirely blame him for.

LetsGetReal
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #47 on: Today at 09:39:43 AM »

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We learn, we move forward. We make lemonade when life hands us lemons. We grow in knowledge and control. We will win because we are not alone

There are many groups and individuals who are realizing these laws do more harm than good and protect no one.

There is only one direction in this war and that is forward.

We do not shoot our wounded.

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flowergirl_1970
Member

Re: Fox News Mike and Julie show this morning (Monday)
« Reply #48 on: Today at 09:57:25 AM »

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The “300 victims” statistic comes from the Abel, 1987 study ….. never been replicated and many design problems limiting the generalizability of the study. Its completely irresponsible to apply their findings to anybody other than their sample and doing so indicates one’s lack of intelligence (IMO) or ability to critically analyze research results. Use of that statistic is unethical yet so many people do, even politicians.

fallenone
SO Clear Admin
Beginner Member

Re: Tom Madison on the Mike and Juliet show
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 11:25:46 PM » Quote
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I, for one, am sick of trying to sugar coat everything, and I don’t see too many others putting themselves on the front lines. SO Clear has more active members per capita than any other group, and that is saying something
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tmaximus95
Beginner Member

Re: Tom Madison on the Mike and Juliet show
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 05:50:22 AM » Quote

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I’m in disagreement with you on some of your issues. For years we’ve been tip toeing through the tulpis, hoping that things will get beter. I think the time has come to show our anger at the gross abuse of our civil and human rights…

Though I agree that Tom got perhaps a bit aggressive, it was necessary. Tom is very sensitive about all sex offenders being labelled as “pedophiles.” He flips out!

I don’t believe it’s wrong that we are angry over the persecution we are suffering, and since these laws don’t do what they’re supposed to–which is protect the public–they need to be abolished.

Now… Just how to do that is anyone’s guess.

Before you judge the affect of what happened… Let’s wait awhile and see what the fallout is–if any–to better analyze any future interactions with the public through the media.

Walt.

trickson

Re: Tom Madison on the Mike and Juliet show
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 11:40:22 AM » Quote

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I saw nothing but uncontrolled anger , Hatred , fear mongering and a total lack of self control on the part of the interviewers and the so called expert panel ! that was a joke nothing more that an ambush meant to spread more fear , Hate and anger towards sex offenders for the show to gain more points ! I would consider asking if they crossed the line and were vigilantes up there trying to cause some kind of physical harm or mental harm and that would be against the law !

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SexOffenderIssues

Re: Tom Madison on the Mike and Juliet show
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 11:45:55 AM » Quote

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We live in a sick, sick world, where evil and ignorance knows no bounds.

trickson

Re: Tom Madison on the Mike and Juliet show
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 11:54:17 AM » Quote

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I so agree with you ! what I got out of watching that was sick I was physically sickened I wanted to yell and scream I was so angry and in some respect I still am . I do not know what to say this world is full of sick hate filled people that spread it like a virus and that DA she is a virus that no one needs ! not one of them showed any respect any empathy any forgiveness what so ever ! the hate spewing forth from there mouths was amazing to me . That X-DA could hardly wait to jump in with her loud angry hate fill voice yelling at the 2 people that were there ! What was the point in her yelling from the GATE ? ! I am still so angry right now ! I can not even think how pissed off Tom was not to mention the law make that took them men into his home ! what even the interviewers were hostile and filled with disdain and HATE ! I so need to chill out I am now just peaking with anger my self !

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trickson
Beginner Member

Re: Tom Madison on the Mike and Juliet show
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2008, 08:30:46 PM » Quote

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Well the only thing that DA ever worked on was TAKING KIDS , separating kids and locking up the parents ! Never to see them again ! spreading her hate and anger onto generations of children is her way of working with children !

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REALITY CHECK:
Addressing people as ignorant in your first sentence, won’t work. People are not ignorant. But Tom Madison is an arrogant cocky pissed off sex offender who does not elicit empathy and compassion from the very people he needs it from. He is in no position to be exhibiting such anti-social traits, and as the self-proclaimed voice of sex offenders he’s merely giving America the impression they already had: That he and others like him are out-of-control, impulsive, selfish heartless dogs.

REALITY CHECK:
It is not that sex offenders speak out, it is HOW they speak out, their inability to understand the very studies they mis-quote, their angry mocking of victims, their minimization behavior, finger-pointing, misplaced blame, rationalizations, deceptive propaganda and denial that is the downfall of RSO activism. No success can ever be won and maintained without honesty and integrity. The current RSO advocacy leadership is lacking in those qualities.

REALITY CHECK:
There are sex offenders who feel they have the right to angry righteous indignation while they are calling victims of sexual assault “professional victims” for being angry that their abuser served such a low sentence and went on to abuse someone else, or walked away scott free, or roams the internet blaming and rationalizing and organizing international pedophile rings. Those sex offenders and/or supporters are suffering from thinking errors. They need to stop listening to the advice of those angry leaders and take back control of their activism.

REALITY CHECK:
Children are not here to be used on the whim of anyone. They are to be cherished and loved and protected from evil. The exploitation of children IS evil in whatever form it takes. While children and families of registered sex offenders will experience consequences, those consequences are ultimately the fault of the sex offender. By blaming society and government they are teaching their children to misplace blame. They should accept their part in what’s happened, and try to protect their children as much as possible from the negative effects instead of drawing them into the fight and attempting to USE them to fight their battle. This is the new wave of RSO activism. It is completely inappropriate and will serve to decimate RSO advocacy once and for all.

DO NOT EXPLOIT CHILDREN

REALITY CHECK:
Teenagers have their own issues. If you feel strongly about Romeo and Juliet cases then make that your issue and fight for them with all you’ve got. But remember that when you also fight for child molesters, rapists, child porn addicts, the abolishment of civil commitment laws for those deemed at high risk to re-offend, and for the abolishment of age of consent laws….your argument is lost and your fight is over

14.9.08 03:39

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